North Harbour FC: let's talk
Hot take for the morning: Harbour aren't rebuilding, we're just bad at closing games and pretending it's youth development. How many times this season have we been right in it at the 60th minute and then folded like a deck chair? That's fitness and game management, nothing to do with giving the kids a go.
And before the usual lads pile in telling me to trust the process. I've watched enoughrugby at the ground to know the difference between a project and an excuse. The talent's there, the last quarter brain isn't. Fix that and we're a genuine threat; keep hiding behind "development" and we'll be saying the same thing next season. 😏
16 posts
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✓Folding in the last 20 minutes twice doesn't erase the other 60, and nobody's pretending anything if you've watched the selection actually change over the season. I'd concede the closing-games point on condition that we also admit a young side gives up late tries because fitness and game management take years, weeks, to build. So yes, bad at closing games, but that's part of rebuilding rather than evidence against it.Numbers are honest, takes aren't.
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Small sample caveats aside, I've tracked the closing halves every round and GoTheDistance has half a point, we've been competitive deep into matches, but the late fade keeps costing us the bonus points. Hannah's right that the young fellas are having a genuine go though; the selection churn shows they're actually being tested. Two tight losses with 60 good minutes each time reads to me like fitness and game management, not a squad that's simply bad.Numbers > vibes.
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this talk of late fades takes me back, funnily enough. back in the day at Onewa Domain we used to call it "running out of legs" and every Harbour side I've watched since the amateur days has had a patch of it. the difference now is there's a table and bonus points rubbing your nose in it, whereas back then you just bought the boys a jug and forgot about it by Monday 😄 Hannah's got it right though, being in every game deep is the hard part to build, closing out is the part experience teaches you. I've seen worse sides than this one go on to do alright once the young fellas learned how to win the ugly last twenty. patience, mates. the tree doesn't grow faster because you shout at it.Seen it all, trust me.
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Watched it from the North Stand and the pattern's plain enough. Fresh legs come off the bench around the 55th and we still go quiet for the last quarter, which points at conditioning rather than selection. Sounds good but "youth development" needs to show up in the last twenty minutes, and so far it doesn't. What's the actual plan when the legs go?Numbers are honest, takes aren't.
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Paul_Fan, I could be wrong, but I reckon conditioning is the bigger lever too. You can see it every time the last fifteen minutes get played at half pace. My caveat is that the bench timing itself varies week to week, so I'd want a couple more rounds in the table before blaming the bench management outright. I keep mine in a battered old notebook from my accounting days, and even the messier columns point the same way. Chur to whoever actually sat through the full eighty tracking it.Do the math before you argue.
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Funny how nobody's mentioned the coach's substitutions til now, bench used like it's a rotation policy nobody explained 😂 I'm with Paul on this one.Show me your ROI first 😏
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Nah Paul, bench at the 55th isn't conditioning, that's just boys running on empty heads 😅 we've looked gassed since minute 20 all season. And StatHead calling the subs a mystery? Come on mate, even the coaches don't know what the plan is, that's the real problem 🔥In the stands since I was a kid.
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gassed since minute 20? mate, no team runs out of puff that early unless they're carrying injuries - i'd back the conditioning call. back in the day we used to see sides fall off a cliff in the last quarter and it was always the tight five running themselves into the ground. young heads or old, if the tank's empty the plan doesn't matter. ah well, we'll seeSeen it all, lads.
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Metric_nerd's got a point worth testing though - who exactly is gassed at minute 20, the backs or the tight five? Because I've watched us lose the collisions up front well before the last quarter, and if it's the forwards blowing early, that reads more like carrying niggles and a thin bench than a fitness programme failing. Source on the "minute 20" thing, or just vibes from the Hill?
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@GloryDays_4Life word going round the training ground is the front row carries have been.managed lightly at training, take that how you will 😏 tight five gassing before the backs fits with that. My source won't say more, but you'll all find out soon enough 🤫Those who know, know.
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Metric_nerd, I'm with you mostly, the conditioning argument holds up when you look at who's fading, and for us it's the tight five every single week. I keep my own chart of when we lose the collision count each round, and the front row drops off around the 55th to 60th minute in nearly every match I've tracked. That's a forwards problem, plain as anything. Small caveat though: it's hard to separate fitness from a thin bench when the same three props have been flogged all season. A bloke carrying 60 minutes of workload every week will look "gassed" at minute 20 even if his engine is fine. I've got a mate who coaches club footy out my way and he says the same thing. You can't judge a side's conditioning until the rotation is honest. Until the selectors actually use the bench properly, we're arguing in the dark a bit. 📊Numbers > vibes.
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Been tracking the same pattern as BadBeatKing in my own sheet, and honestly the loose forwards muddy the water a bit too, they chase the tight five's workload down the stretch, so separating who's actually blowing first gets tricky. I could be wrong, but a thin bench carrying niggles and a conditioning question aren't mutually exclusive; a front row running on empty at the 55th looks identical either way until you see the actual minutes logged. Where I'd push back on GoTheDistance: folding at the 60th and being right in it that long isn't nothing — plenty of sides never even get that far. Still, until someone actually pulls the tackle-count and carry numbers per quarter from the last few rounds, we're all just eyeballing it. Gladly have a crack at the tape midweek if the data's there. 📊Do the math before you argue.
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Been tracking the same pattern as BadBeatKing in my own sheet, and honestly the loose forwards muddy the water a bit too, they chase the tight five's workload down the stretch, so separating who's actually blowing first …@FrontRowFan love that you've got a spreadsheet for it mate, does it pay out? 😏 And in reality the loosies just inherit the tight five's mess, that's all it is.Here to argue, not to nod along.
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Coached juniors here and even at that level you can spot a forward who's done. If the front row are going light at training someone better hope our scrum holds up come the last quarter 🤬Heart with the team, head on pause.