Beauden at ten was a mistake and we all know it
Big calls in this thread already and half of you still won't say the quiet part out loud: Beauden at ten was a name on the team sheet, nothing more. Eden Park semi, 2023, everyone crying about the forwards getting monstered while we hoofed away possession for an hour like it was 1995. Guess who's calling those kicks, aye. Ten runs the plan, and the plan was rubbish.
Plummer would've actually played on the front foot instead of treating the ball like a hot potato. Say what you like about his ceiling, at least he moves the team. I'll wait for the fanboys to pile in with the "two-time World Player of the Year" stuff, that bloke won those awards standing behind a dominant All Black pack, playing what was in front of him. At the Blues, with the game on his shoulders? Different story entirely, and the tape says so. 🤡😏
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✓Who actually fed the backs clean ball when Beauden dropped to ten that night. Plummer? The forwards were getting shunted backwards before Beauden ever touched it, so blaming the kicking on him is a reach. And define "never actually better with him there", better by what measure exactly? I'll believe the Plummer case when someone shows me more than a grudge against a big name.Sample first, conclusions after.
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nah Plummer got dogged that night, clean ball or not you can't defend kicking it away for an hour... Beauden at ten was a marquee signing pick, simple 🔥🤬You don't abandon your own.
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I went back over my notes from that semi and the sequence that sticks is the midfield pairing, not the forwards. Beauden and Barrett played as two tens wearing out a channel all night, and the selection itself forced the kicking. You can't run that shape when your second playmaker is standing at twelve wondering whether to take the ball or clear it. Plummer that season had been the one keeping our attack on tempo whenever he came on, and I could be wrong, but the tape supports it: every time he slotted in late 2023 the ball moved wider within two phases. Supporter_Zone, fair question about what "better" means, I'd count it in tempo and territory won with ball in hand, and by both measures the Beauden-at-ten games had us playing behind the gainline. The forwards did get shunted, sure, but a game plan that asks your pack to carry into a set defence for sixty minutes because your ten won't hold the ball is a selection problem first.
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Reminds me of the old days, mate, we ran a dual playmaker then too and it never worked. Beauden and Barrett wearing tens was always a soft selection, really.
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FrontRow, with respect, seen worse takes but I can't wear this one 😄 the 2023 semi selection was Leon's call and Beauden deserved his shot after the season he'd had. Blaming him for sixty minutes of kicking while the pack was going backwards at scrum time? Ah well, we'll see how Plummer goes this year, eh.Seen it all, lads.
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Paul_Fan raises a fair point and I'll grant it, Plummer's wins column that season at Eden Park wasn't glowing, so Leon picking Beauden wasn't madness on paper. Small sample though when you compare the two: Plummer got patches of starts in a shuffled backline, Beauden got the marquee games with the game plan built around him, and the two samples aren't comparable in quality of service. That's the nuance people skip. Where NickDiehard has it right is the dual-ten shape forcing the kicking pattern. I was in the stands that semi night and the thing I remember isn't the scrum, it's watching both Barretts stand flat in the same channel for an hour while we NEVER once ran from our own half. My own match notes from the night say exactly that: first kicker from inside our forty in the 12th minute, and it never changed. 📊 You could feel the crowd groan by the thirty-minute mark because everyone knew what was coming on turnover ball.
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Funny how everyone bags Beauden now but none of you were putting your TAB money on Plummer kicking us to a semi win back then, were you? 😏 The pack was getting shoved off the park all night, no ten alive fixes that. Laughable really, rewrite history all you like, mate, I was there.It's a lottery, not sport.
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Funny how everyone bags Beauden now but none of you were putting your TAB money on Plummer kicking us to a semi win back then, were you? 😏 The pack was getting shoved off the park all night, no ten alive fixes that. Laug…@AmyBlues I was there too mate, was up in the ranks screaming 😤 pack got smashed yeah but Beauden kept grubbering possession away, drove me nutsOne love, one side ❤️
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Amy I was there too mate and I'm not rewriting nuthin — Beauden held the ball and kicked possession away while Plummer runs the game properly. Nah, my eyes don't lie 😤On the terraces since I was a kid.
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Amy's got half a point and I'll say that up front, no ten alive fixes a pack getting shoved around Eden Park. I could be wrong, but the way I read that semi, the two things aren't in conflict. The forwards were second-best, yes, but the game plan still came from ten, and Beauden chose to kick away possession for the better part of an hour when we were already struggling at the set piece. That's a tactical error compounding a physical one, and the two together are why we never got a foothold. On Paul's wins column argument, fair on paper, but context matters, and the sample with Plummer that season came against different sides under different conditions, so I'd treat that record with caution rather than as proof. 📊 Where I land, tentatively: Leon's call was understandable, defensible even, but the rugby Beauden played that night didn't fit the team we actually had on the park.Do the math before you argue.
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Amy's got half a point and I'll say that up front, no ten alive fixes a pack getting shoved around Eden Park. I could be wrong, but the way I read that semi, the two things aren't in conflict. The forwards were second-be…@FrontRowFan this makes sense to me actually, both things can be true 😅 still learning this era properly though. Was Plummer's running game that much better in traffic?Daft questions are my specialty.
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@FrontRowFan this makes sense to me actually, both things can be true 😅 still learning this era properly though. Was Plummer's running game that much better in traffic?@RideOrDie_247 mate the short answer is yes, watch any derby night and you'll see it, Plummer takes the ball flat to the line and actually makes defenders commit, Beauden's first instinct is still to slide back into the pocket and punt. That's fine when your forwards are rolling, suicide when the pack's getting shoved like it was that semi. Fair play to you for actually asking though, more than most in here manage 😏 Though I'd gently point out FrontRowFan telling you "both things can be true" is the kind of fence-sitting that would make a TAB multi look like a safe investment 🤡 Pick a lane, son.Here to argue, not to nod along.