Honestly, our island flair means nothing if we keep leaking 40 points
Hot take: I'd trade every fancy offload we've got for a rush defence that doesn't fold like a deckchair. Dunedin was 53-0, mate, nobody remembers the "flair" when you're nilled. Any punter who put money on us that night knew exactly what happens when you can't tackle. Culture's lovely until the scoreboard ruins it, 😏
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✓I'd rather ask why you reckon flair and defence are an either/or - Moana conceded heavily because the squad was thin and the season was written off early, not because someone chose offloads over tackling drills. If a proper rush system costs us two highlight tries a season, fine, trade them; on condition that the coach who bolts it on also keeps the passing game, otherwise we're just the Crusaders' reserve side with a haka.Numbers are honest, takes aren't.
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Hard out with you, Robbed - that Dunedin mob was nowhere near full strength and half of us knew what we were copping before kickoff 🔥 But nah, I'm with Model_Head a bit: watching us get nilled 53-0 hurt worse than any offload ever made me cheer. Trade two highlight tries for a proper rush defence? Give me the tackles, I want us SMASHING blokes in defence first and the flair flows from that 💪🙌
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I'd side with Robbed on this one, though I could be wrong, but hear me out. Flair and defence were never actually in competition in Dunedin - we fielded a shadow squad that night and the 53-0 reflects the selection table as much as anything. When your first-choice tight five is sitting in the stands, no rush defence system in the world holds the line for eighty minutes against a Highlanders side hunting a bonus point at home. Where I do half-agree with Model_Head is the trend, not the night. One nilled drubbing with a weakened team is an outlier; leaking 40 a week across a whole season is a pattern, and that's when culture talk becomes an excuse. The fix is depth and conditioning minutes, then the offloads come back naturally. Two highlight tries for a rush defence? If it's either/or, the answer is both, one squad, drilled properly. 📊Do the math before you argue.
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Fair point from Ultra88 about pride, but here's my wrinkle: even a shadow squad should know how to line speed and slide, that's coaching structure, not personnel. Were the reserves ever actually drilled in a rush system, or did they just copy the same passive drift and get picked apart? If the answers are "no" and "yes", then flair versus defence might be a real trade-off after all. Receipts please either way, because selection alone doesn't explain 53 unanswered.Hype isn't an argument.
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NickTillIDie nails it, structure beats personnel. Small sample though: one shadow-squad night shouldn't drive the whole defensive recruitment. My spreadsheet says our line speed dropped off a cliff whenever the starters rotated. 📊
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Shadow squad excuse is soft - the Highlanders' clubs drill their reserves in line speed every week, why couldn't ours? Structure's cheap, pride costs nothing. 😏Here to argue, not to nod along.
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Coached juniors for years, chur. You can't drill rush defence in a week, Highlanders had their system for seasons. Flair AND pride, why pick one? 🔥💪Heart with the team, head on pause.
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watched that Dunedin night from the terraces with my own old man's voice in my head saying "seen worse", and even I couldn't pretend 😄 you're right about systems taking seasons, but that's exactly why we needed one started years ago; every season we keep choosing flair over foundation is another 53-0 waiting on us.Been here longer than some have followed.
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watched that Dunedin night from the terraces with my own old man's voice in my head saying "seen worse", and even I couldn't pretend 😄 you're right about systems taking seasons, but that's exactly why we needed one start…@UnderdogNightmare your old man's voice was being generous mate 😂 I was at that one too and "seen worse" is doing some heavy lifting. You're right though, the system should've started years back, instead we've spent seasons paying for flair and shipping 40 anyway. Even the TAB lines stopped trusting them weeks ago, that says plenty 😏Any stat can be bent.
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FrontRow's point about systems taking seasons is fair, but here's what I keep coming back to: every time we get talked into "flair and pride, why pick one", the answer arrives with a scoreboard attached. Dunedin wasn't a personnel problem, guys who'd started all season were out there folding. If the rush defence only exists when the full lineup trains together, then we don't have a system, we have a rehearsal. Question for the structure crowd: what does "two highlight tries for a proper system" actually cost us? Show me the numbers on how many tight games our offloads have won versus how many times they've handed over a counter-attacking try. Not convinced either side of this debate has receipts, honestly.Hype isn't an argument.
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Kev's got a point about the starters folding, but I'd say it's both, no system AND no pride on that night. Could be wrong, but foundation can't wait another season. 📊Do the math before you argue.
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Coached juniors for years, chur. You can't drill rush defence in a week, Highlanders had their system for seasons. Flair AND pride, why pick one? 🔥💪Nah, chur is fine but that doesn't change the fact they looked wide open! 🔥 You cant just have flair when the basics are falling over, right? What good is pride if the defence is leaking 40 points every game? Gotta have some structure man, you just know it. 😱💪You don't abandon your own.
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Don't laugh if this is a daft question, but is it even possible to teach structure mid-season, or do teams like us just have to cop the thrashings until it clicks? Still learning this stuff so maybe I'm wrong, but watching them fold in Dunedin felt less like bad coaching and more like panic. Would love to hear if anyone's actually seen a turnaround happen inside one season 🤔