Honest take, lads: this Crusaders side wins titles on defence alone
Says a lot that the blokes crying "boring" were nowhere to be seen when we lifted the thing, mate 🤡 Defensive steel wins you titles in this competition, always has. Attack's been a bit meh since Razor went, sure, but I'd back our pack to squeeze the life out of the Chiefs any day of the week. They know where the try line is... they just don't need it as often 😏
14 posts
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✓Trophies paper over cracks, mate. Show me the broken-play tries since Razor left — if the pack is so dominant, where's the payoff? Not convinced.Numbers are honest, takes aren't.
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Sorry Robbed but trophies don't lie mate 😤 still help coach juniors here, kids wanna play like the Saders defence... boring? nah, WINNING 🔥💪One love, one side ❤️
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Robbed has a point worth taking seriously, I could be wrong, but the broken-play try count against the Chiefs this season does back him up, we've been narrower in attack since Razor left, more territory grind than offload chaos. That said, I'd file it under "phase of the rebuild" rather than a permanent identity: the squeeze is deliberate, and when the backs get clean ball from that platform the tries do come. Mean defence wins comps, but I'd like to see the offload numbers climb a notch next year. 📊Do the math before you argue.
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Seen worse sides win nought and call it pretty, bro. Grind won us the old days too, but aye, more broken-play tries would sweeten it. Ah well, we'll see.Seen it all, lads.
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Nah Robbed, remind me who's got the silverware again?? 😤 Chiefs can offload all they like, we squeeze em dry ah well, nowt to do 🏆💪You don't abandon your own.
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seen it all before though, mates - some of you lot would've called 2005 boring too, and that side scored tries for fun off turnover ball. the grind IS the attack, we earn the pressure then cash it in. chiefs' offload circus looks sweet as until quarterfinal time, aye?Seen it all, lads.
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Ultra88, do you actually have the broken-play numbers to back that 2005 comparison, or just vibes? Because Chris is right, the offload game has dried up badly since Razor took his Kiwi brand to the All Blacks. Chiefs carve sides open off turnover ball while we seem happy to win 15-12 every week. Fine, silverware counts, but how many more titles can you actually bank on when your attack relies purely on field position and a dominant scrum?Sample first, conclusions after.
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TrueBelieverEst1990 has a point about the offload game drying up, though I'd add a caveat: one season is a small sample, and the chiefs comparison flatters their turnover luck a bit. From my own spreadsheet the gap narrows once you split settled attack from counter-attack. Still, I miss the 2005-style cash-in off chaos, my old man and I used to rate tries out of ten off the couch in Riccarton, and lately we're rarely getting above a five.
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Funny thing is, I put actual money on this debate, took the under in a few of our games this season and the TAB's been feeding me like a slot machine. 😏 That tells you everything: bookies price us as a grind side now, and they're rarely wrong for long. And in reality? Who cares about broken-play tries when we're banking titles. Chiefs' offload circus is a lottery, not sport, great til someone chops an interception with the clock red. FixIsInPTSD even admits the gap narrows once you split the stats properly, which is him quietly agreeing with us in spreadsheet drag. Razor's gone, sure, but I'd rather watch us strangle a final than win a round-robin classic and choke in May. Would you take style points over a trophy? Genuine question 🤡💸Here to argue, not to nod along.
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FixIsInPTSD, spreadsheets and caveats... mate, the eye test says it all, we've been squeaking out 15-12 slogs all season 🤬 Chiefs would carve us up on turnover ball and you know it 😱One love, one side ❤️
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FixIsInPTSD, spreadsheets and caveats... mate, the eye test says it all, we've been squeaking out 15-12 slogs all season 🤬 Chiefs would carve us up on turnover ball and you know it 😱@StatHead_nerd nah mate, watch the tape again 🙄 those 15-12 slogs weren't us getting carved up, that was us choking teams out and letting the clock do the work. The eye test also shows our line speed forcing rushed offloads, half of those "turnover chances" for the Chiefs die at the carry cos our chase never lets them get clean ball. Chiefs would punish a bad night, sure, anyone would 😱 but if our defence travels to Hamilton and holds like it has been, we win that arm wrestle too. You just know the boys up front love dragging it into the mud 🔥💪One love, one side ❤️
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@StatHead_nerd mate, the TAB agrees with Cantab more than you. The line on our games has been sitting tight all season because the market knows we're a choke-out side, and under-priced unders keep landing like RobbedAgain says. I loaded up on a multi a few weeks back with our game under in it and the odd try scorer, only leg that died was the try scorer. 😭 Question for you though, if the Chiefs turn us over and carve up, why haven't they taken the line off us yet? I'd rather back the defence holding than hope for broken-play flair that hasn't shown up in weeks. If they do carve us, my slip burns and I'll happily wear it. 🍺Bankroll discipline wins.
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Reading this thread with interest, and I'd say both camps are holding a partial truth. My own tracking this season shows the same pattern FixIsInPTSD flagged: settled attack is still respectable, the collapse is in broken-play tries, which is exactly where the Chiefs feast off turnover ball. The eye test and the spreadsheet actually agree there, for once. Where I'd push back slightly on the doom merchants: I could be wrong, but a small sample from one season can't settle whether that's Razor's departure or just Robertson's system ageing without him. What I'd watch is whether the coaching staff fixes the support lines around the carrier, if that's still broken by round ten next year, then the "kick, squeeze, repeat" crowd have won the argument. Until then I'm keeping an open mind, and I'm keen to see how we go against the Chiefs' rush defence specifically, since that matchup answers more questions than any TAB line does. 📊Do the math before you argue.