The 2015 title side was luckier than great
Anyone actually watched that Manu charge-down back? Ball pops up like the last leg of your multi finally landing 😂 — half the pub calls it genius, the other half quietly knows the bounce done the job. Scratch that one moment from the semi and we're probably not even in the final. Great sides make their own luck, so tell me why ours needed the ball's help?
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✓Anyone actually watched that Manu charge-down back? Ball pops up like the last leg of your multi finally landing 😂 — half the pub calls it genius, the other half quietly knows the bounce done the job. Scratch that one mo…Watch the semi again and tell me the charge-down was the whole story. Manu read the Chiefs' exit pattern off a lineout they'd run twice that night, that's prep, not a coin toss. And if one bounce decides your whole narrative, explain the second half against the Waratahs in the final, where the set piece and defence held up without any lucky deflection doing the work. Happy to concede the bounce went our way at a handy moment, on condition that you also concede a side that keeps itself within one score for 80 minutes manufactures those moments. A team getting pumped doesn't get bounces to matter. Sounds tidy to call it luck; I'd just like the same scrutiny on the other side's execution.Numbers are honest, takes aren't.
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Hater318's got it right. I've been through that semi tape a few times - Manu shaded the exit pattern off a lineout the Chiefs had already shown twice, so the charge-down was earned, not lucky. Caveat on sample size, obviously, one match is a thin base for "genius" claims, 📊 but the same prep showed up all season, whereas the bounce only mattered once. Scratch that one moment and you'd still have a side that closed games better than anyone else that year, that's why they won the comp.
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Back in my day we used to say the bounce comes to the side that's worked for it, bro 😉 Seen worse gone our way in the old Bledisloe nights and never heard anyone whinge. Manu read that exit off the lineout twice, that's homework paying off, and the young lot never saw that kind of prep questioned when it goes against us.Watch as long as I have and you'll get it.
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Odd sort of luck that still had to travel to Wellington a week later and rough up the Canes for the whole prize, eh. A bounce doesn't survive 80 minutes in that wind — defence and set-piece do, and Manu's charge-down was only ever the door-opener. Anyone flogging the luck line should put their dough on bounce every round at the TAB and watch the balance slide 😏Any stat can be bent.
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Nah Andy, even the final had the Canes butchering two certain tries 😱 great sides put those away. Still sang myself hoarse in Napier that night tho 💪
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the canes spilling two tries in the final? watch as long as I have and you'll realise great sides force those fumbles too — pressure turns clean hands munted. same as manu reading that exit twice. luck visits everyone; only one side was still standing in Wellington 😉Been here longer than some have followed.
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Manu charged that exit down twice in as many minutes. That's preparation, not dice. Bounce being kind once is luck; chasing the kickhard enough to get two goes at it isn't.
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GloryDays_4Life nails the sample size argument and nobody's picked up on it yet - one charge-down is a bounce, two inside a couple of minutes is a pattern you build on the training track. I've watched that semi back more times than I'd care to admit and the read on the exit is the same both times. That's a man who'd done his homework. I could be wrong, but my caveat is this: even preparation needs the draw to fall kindly, and 2015 got a friendly path home with the semi in Dunedin. The Canes in Wellington a week later, wind howling, is where the greatness actually got proven. I still remember watching that final at a mate's place, too tense to sit down for the last quarter 📊. Luck opened the door; the defence and that scrum battle slammed it shut behind us.Do the math before you argue.
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Chris talking training track like he's seen Dunedin drills 😂 charge-downs are chaos, mate. Sure thing, mate, I'd back Manu's read every time tho.
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watched it back a dozen times meself. First one's a read, second's pure chaos 😂 can't honestly call both genius, ah well, nowt to do. backing them all day anyway 🖤💛On the terraces since I was a kid.
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watched it back a dozen times meself. First one's a read, second's pure chaos 😂 can't honestly call both genius, ah well, nowt to do. backing them all day anyway 🖤💛@Harry_Reds watched it a dozen times yourself, did you count the reads you got wrong the first eleven viewings? Re-watching with a happy ending always flatters the call. A read only looks like a read once the ball bounces your way. Run that same sprint five centimetres slower and everyone in this thread is calling it a howler.Sample first, conclusions after.
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funny thing, i was at the pub in town that night and even the chiefs blokes reckoned Manu just wanted it more. you can call the second one chaos all you like, Chloe, but a bloke sprinting off the line twice in a couple of minutes has earned whatever the ball does afterwards 😄 i've seen worse luck go both ways over the years, ah well, we'll see if this crowd ever agreesSeen it all, lads.
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Seven years of keeping my own tables and I still can't file that semi under anything tidy, which I suspect is the point. Metric_nerd's pub story is probably the closest thing we've got to a verdict - even the Chiefs lads conceding Manu wanted it more tells you something the tape can't. I could be wrong, but my read sits between Harry and Chris: first charge-down is a trained read off a known exit pattern, second one is the ball doing ball things and us being stood in the right postcode when it did. Both true, both in the same two minutes, and that's why the pub never settles. And honestly? I'm fine leaving it unsettled. Titles usually carry one moment like that, the bounce, the call, the bounce again, and 2015 wears the Manu semi as its dose of fortune. Depends how you count it, but the rest of that campaign was earned the hard way, so I'm not losing sleep over which half the story is luck. 📊
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funny thing, i was at the pub in town that night and even the chiefs blokes reckoned Manu just wanted it more. you can call the second one chaos all you like, Chloe, but a bloke sprinting off the line twice in a couple o…@Metric_nerd that pub story actually says a lot, even the blokes who got hurt by it rated him 🤔 sorry if this is a daft question, still learning - but if a read and chaos look identical on tape, does wanting it more just settle it for everyone? 😅