Honestly, this Highlanders backline has more talent than the
watched us butcher 2 on 1 overlaps twice last fortnight while everyone raves about the "talent". More ability than the Crusaders' backline? maybe, but Tony Brown's lot at least look like they've got a shape. Three tries from turnover counter is a symptom, not a plan, and deep down you all know it 😏
15 posts
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✓RobbedAgainMerchant, you watched the same matches I did and took the opposite lesson from them. Two botched overlaps in a fortnight proves the passes are under-practised, sure. It doesn't prove the talent isn't there. And your own example cuts against you: if counter-attack is producing tries, somebody upstairs clearly values scramble speed and conditioning. That IS a plan, just not the one you want. The symptom question is fairer. Three from four off turnover says we're still winning ball in good areas and finishing it - the Crusaders under Brown score pretty off shape, we score ugly off chaos. I'd rather fix the width problem than pretend the points aren't real. What would Brown's shape actually look like with this roster, though? Name the three players who'd hold a structured pattern for 80 minutes and I'll concede the point.
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Nah Robbed, counter tries are still tries 🔥 our defence wins us the ball and that's part of the gameplan whether you rate it or not. Those botched overlaps? fixable with reps, mate - the wheels are there, nowt wrong with the talent. Remember when we ran riot off turnover in that comeback game, what a result that was 🙌 ah well, nowt to doYou don't abandon your own.
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SeenItAllFaithful's got it half right but RobbedAgainMerchant's point holds up on the tape. Count the sample: three of the last four tries from turnover counter. One of those was pure credit to our defence winning the ball, sure. But when structured phase attack produces one try across four matches and two 2-on-1 overlaps get butchered in the same stretch, that pattern says the shape isn't being coached in. I could be wrong, but Crusaders sides under Brown always looked deliberate with width even when the personnel was arguably no better. The wheels are there, agreed — nobody's disputing talent. The question is why the car only runs downhill. Fix the reps, play with width, and then the counter tries become a bonus rather than the whole meal. 📊Do the math before you argue.
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watched the old super 12 sides at carisbrook in the cold and we scored plenty off turnover too, lenny lolesio's lot lived on it one season. my worry's simpler: if three of four tries come from counters, the structured attack is being starved of width, and reps alone won't fix a game plan that never asks for the wide pass. fix the shape and the overlaps stop getting butchered. 😉Been here longer than some have followed.
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Honestly I'd stick a tenner at the TAB on us butchering the next overlap too 🤡 Three tries off counters means the coaches don't trust the shape, simple as that, mate 😏Here to argue, not to nod along.
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Seen the tape myself tbh, wheels are there, we just panic before the pass goes wide 😤 coaches trust the counters cos they're safe, that's the symptom yeahYou don't abandon your own.
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gothe distances got it backwards i reckon, counters off turnover were how the great sides fed too. seen worse shapes than ours, ah well, we'll seeSeen it all, lads.
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Point on question stands, watch the fullback's first touch after a turnover. If he's running before the wingers are set, that's coached caution, not laziness. 🤔
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Josh_Legend has it spot on, I've watched the tape from the last fortnight with a coffee at my kitchen table in Wellington and the fullback's first touch tells you everything, he's gone before the outside men are level. My caveat though: coached caution only becomes a symptom if the shape never improves by round eight or so, and three tries is a small sample to hang Tony Brown's successors with. Give it a month of tape before we burn the game plan.Numbers > vibes.
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Counters being the bread and butter is fine until the weather turns and there's nothing to counter from, then we're launchless. BadBeatKing sat at his kitchen table in Wellington with a coffee, I sat in the stands at Forsyth Barr and watched us chuck it wide once all arvo, so excuse me if I trust my eyes 😂 Put a tenner on my TAB multi that we score a structured backline try before June, anyone brave enough to take the other side? 🤡💸Any stat can be bent.
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BadBeatAndy watched one wide pass all arvo and reckons that's the whole story? 😱 counters are tries mate, who cares how they come 🔥💪
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tries are tries until they stop coming, young fella - back in my day the great sides scored off shape on a greasy Dunedin night when there was nothing loose to pounce on. counters are a gift from a sloppy opponent, structured width is what you own. ask me again in July when the defence stops gifting us pill and see if that smile holds 😄Remember when the grass was greener 🌱
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MatchdayTillIDie nailed it, and nobody's actually answered him. Counters are a symptom of the defence doing its job, and honestly also of opponents being sloppy - the structured stuff is where you find out whether the coach has a plan or just hopes. If three of four tries come from turnover ball, what exactly did we build in attack during the other sixty minutes? And to the young fella saying "tries are tries": fine until the sloppy opponent stops being sloppy. Crusaders score off shape in rotten conditions because that's drilled, week after week. Where are our receipts for the same? Happy to be proven wrong, someone show me one match this season where we scored twice off a set move with width. Sounds good on paper, but gut feeling isn't a game plan.Numbers are honest, takes aren't.
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Interesting split here: Paul_Fan says counters are a symptom, MatchdayTillIDie says width is what you own, and both can be right at once. Three tries from turnover in four matches is a small sample though, so before we torch the game plan I'd want the same split across a full season. The real test is the next greasy night in Dunedin: if we still can't score off shape when nothing's loose, then we've got our answer. 📊