Was the TMO call at Rotorua the reason we lost to Tasman?
Bit harsh to blame the whistle when we let in 45, eh? I only started watching Bay of Plenty properly this season, but the Southland and Manawatu games were already rough before Rotorua, so the defence feels like the bigger problem. What did the TMO call actually involve, I couldn't tell from the stands 😅
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✓Funny how the newbie arrives and instantly sounds like the defence lawyer for the referee 😏 One dodgy TMO call might've cost seven points, sure, but who's explaining the 12:43 at Southland or the 12:29 vs Manawatu earlier that month? Nobody's whistle was munted then either. Only beat Hawke's Bay all season and suddenly it's a conspiracy, remind me of your ROI on blaming refs, mate? 😂Show me your ROI first 😏
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RideOrDie has it about right, mate, I was watching back in the amateur days and I'll tell you, when a side concedes 45 plus another 43 down in Invercargill the week before, that's a leaky ship, not a whistler. Sure, the TMO call at Rotorua stung, but 45 points against Tasman sorts out any argument about the ref. Seen worse, plenty of times, and the defence coach will be earning his NZ$ this week. 😉Been here longer than some have followed.
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RideOrDie_247 and UnderdogNightmare have got this right, and StatHeadStats accidentally agreed with them while trying to be clever. A TMO call worth seven points doesn't explain a 19-point margin, and it definitely doesn't explain two losses earlier in the month with scores of 12:43 and 12:29. Small sample though — four games, but the pattern of conceding 29, 43 and 45 in three of them is structural, and the 32:17 win over Hawke's Bay shows the attack was fine at home. The whistle cost us maybe a swing; the defensive lapses cost us the whole game. 📊
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been following this lot since the days when a TMO call took ten minutes of squinting at a grainy replay, and honestly the scoreline tells its own story, 45 points conceded away, a week after they'd put 32 past Hawke's Bay at Rotorua, that's a side that turned up one game and went home the next. sure, one call might've stung, but Southland did us 43 down here earlier in the month and nobody blamed the whistle then either. ah well, we'll see what North Harbour brings. 😉Seen it all, lads.
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Dumb question maybe 😅 what does TMO actually stand for? Still learning this.Learning from the veterans, go easy 🙏
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No dumb question at all, mate - TMO is the Television Match Official, the bloke upstairs who checks tries and the ugly stuff with the video replay. Old-timers like me remember when he'd squint at a grainy screen for ten minutes before ruling either way 😄 In this thread's context: that contested call against Bay of Plenty at Rotorua went up to him, and whatever he decided, one call never explains 45 points conceded in Tasman.
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FixIsInPTSD is onto it, I'd say. I keep my own table every round and the pattern is ugly: 12 points against Manawatu, 12 against Southland, then 26 in Nelson, that's three straight weeks where the attack and defence both went backwards. Five days after putting 32 on Hawke's Bay. A contested TMO call swinging seven points doesn't bridge a 19-point gap. One caveat though, because I could be wrong about the direction of causation here: the whistle can change how a side defends. If the lads think every breakdown is being policed differently, they hesistate, and hesitation looks like a defensive collapse on the tape. Worth rewatching the 10 minutes around the call before we fully let the players off. Wellington - TMO is the Television Match Official, as FrontRow88 said, the bloke upstairs with the replay. 📊Do the math before you argue.
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fair point from the young fella there. I've sat through enough rainy nights at the stadium to know the whistle rarely puts 45 on you. what gets me is the whiplash: 32 against Hawke's Bay one weekend, then they turn around and leak tries like a rusty gutter down south a week later. tmo calls even out over a season, drifty defence doesn't. back in my day we'd have called that a bugger of a training week 😉Watch as long as I have and you'll get it.
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OldSchoolEst nailed the whiplash part, I reckon. I was at the Hawke's Bay game and then watched the Tasman one with my spreadsheet open like a nerd, and honestly the gap between those two performances is wider than anything the TMO could explain. Five days between a 32:17 win and a 45-point leak? That's a defence and conditioning story, and it had been brewing since Manawatu and Southland, where we managed 12 points in each. That said, I'll add my caveat: I could be wrong, but a bad TMO call in the moment can still wreck momentum, and at Rotorua the crowd energy matters. Context matters though, one dodgy decision doesn't explain a 19-point losing margin when you've been leaking for three straight weeks. To RideOrDie_247's point, welcome aboard, but yes, the defence was the problem long before the whistle got involved. 📊
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Heard the same moaning in the pub after the Tasman game. Back in the day we'd have called that a hiding, full stop. One TMO call doesn't leak 45, mate 😉Watch as long as I have and you'll get it.
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SeenItAll_Guy is right in my view, one TMO call might cost you seven points, it doesn't cost you nineteen. I've kept my own table this season too and the Tasman numbers were grim well before any whistle: that was the third hiding in four weeks after Manawatu and Southland, with only the Hawke's Bay game as a bright spot. The five-day turnaround from 32:17 to a 45-point leak is the real story here. Caveat though, and I'll be pedantic about it: a bad call early in a match can change how a team plays for the next twenty minutes, so the TMO may have contributed to the collapse even if it didn't cause it. I marked the Tasman game in red in my book before the final whistle went, same as I did driving home from the Southland one. That's a defence problem, plain as day.Numbers > vibes.
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Ultra88 put his finger on it, honestly. I marked the Tasman match in my notebook as a defensive collapse with an asterisk, because the TMO call was genuinely marginal, I could be wrong, but on the replay I couldn't see enough to overturn it either way. That's the trap: an iffy call becomes a convenient story when the scoreline is embarrassing. For the newbie: run the sample. Four matches, three of them concedes north of 26 points. Manawatu, Southland, Tasman - that pattern started before any whistle blew in Bluff, let alone Rotorua. Hawke's Bay at home was the outlier where the tackling stuck. My caveat for NickDiehard: five days is a short turnaround, and fatigue explains some of the drop-off, just maybe not nineteen points of it. 📊Do the math before you argue.
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Still learning this stuff, but 45 points seems like way more than a TMO could cause 😅 thanks FrontRowFan for the replay note! Does a marginal call like that even count as the whistle "costing" us?Learning from the veterans, go easy 🙏