Honest question, fam: is our forward pack actually elite
Honest answer? We're remembering 2022 and hoping nobody notices the scrum going backwards at One NZ Stadium. Getting shunted twice in the last twenty is where games actually get decided, and the fanboys will still tell you the pack picks itself. Love this mob to bits, but elite packs don't fold when the legs go. I'd honestly rather put a TAB multi on us making the final than on that front row holding a lead. Rose-tinted glasses, and I'm not buying a pair. 😏
18 posts
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✓Honest answer? We're remembering 2022 and hoping nobody notices the scrum going backwards at One NZ Stadium. Getting shunted twice in the last twenty is where games actually get decided, and the fanboys will still tell y…You could be right, on condition that two scrum hits outweigh the other seventy minutes of work up front. They don't.Numbers are honest, takes aren't.
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Sooome of you have short memories 😤 Two scrum hits in the last twenty and suddenly the pack's rubbish? Nah. Watch the whole 80 again, the maul and breakdown work was massive. Reminds me of that Ranfurly Shield night we held them out at the end, guts over glory. One dodgy patch doesn't make a pack average ah well, nowt to do 🔥💪You don't abandon your own.
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I've got the tape and my table from that night in front of me, and I'd side with SeenItAllFaithful here with one caveat. Two scrum penalties conceded inside the last twenty stings, no arguing that, but context matters: one came with the bench front row on and the game state begging for it, and the maul and breakdown numbers across the full 80 were carrying that scrum. Andy's reading the twenty minutes that decided the scoreline and skipping the hour where the pack actually won the territory battle. Could I be wrong about the scrum being a fatigue blip rather than a trend? Sure, one match is a small sample. But until I see it happen two or three weeks running, I'm calling 2022 memories mostly earned rather than rose-tinted 📊 Watch the set-piece after the next two rounds before anyone writes the pack's obituary.Do the math before you argue.
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back in my day every pack got shunted twice a night and we still called them elite 😄 scrums wobble late when legs are gone, doesn't rewrite the other seventy minutes.Been here longer than some have followed.
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You lot arguing rose-tinted like the tape's gonna change anyone's mind 😂 I'd happily take the bench front row excuse seriously if the starting eight hadn't gone quiet too. 🤡It's a lottery, not sport.
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FrontRowFan, the bench front row excuse only washes if the starting eight set the platform first, and tbh they went quiet in that last quarter too 😬 One shunt happens, two inside twenty and I'm sweating every scrum feed. Love the maul work as much as anyone but you don't get to cherry-pick the good 70 minutes and wave off the bit where games actually get decided. Ranfurly Shield night? That lot NEVER made it easy either, that's my whole point fam 💪 we call it elite when the last twenty is OURS again, not before 🔥In the stands since I was a kid.
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UncleAllDay, mate, i've watched the best packs in the country for forty-odd years and every one of them had a late wobble in them somewhere. Tired legs in the last twenty is the oldest story in rugby. you're judging a whole night's work off two scrums, and i've seen worse scrums win finals. ah well, we'll see.Seen it all, lads.
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Paul_Fan, I've got the last three rounds logged in my own spreadsheet and the set-piece numbers are thin enough that I'd want the scrum stats before slapping "elite" on anything either - you're asking the right question. I could be wrong, but watching from the Auckland side of things, every good pack I've tracked has one dodgy quarter somewhere; Metric_nerd's tired-legs point holds, though two shunts in twenty does warrant a harder look at the conditioning block.
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Funny how "elite" always gets announced the same week we get shunted twice in the last twenty, eh 😏 Metric_nerd, tired legs in the last twenty is a story, sure, but every pack in the country has tired legs, that's the whole point. Elite is when you're still shoving at minute 75 while the other mob's props are looking at the ref for mercy. What we did at One NZ Stadium was the opposite of that, and a couple of strong scrums early in the season don't pay for it. Just asking, mate: when the quarter-finals come and someone targets our back five off the bench, are we backing this lot or backing the memory of 2022? Because I know which one my money's on, and I'm not a punter who burns NZ$ for fun 😂
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Metric_nerd, "seen worse scrums win finals" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there mate 😅 RobBeliever's got a point, if every pack has tired legs at the 60th mark, then the ones who hold are the elite ones and we got shunted twice... I love this pack through thick and thin but two collapses in twenty minutes at One NZ Stadium smells like a conditioning gap, not a wobble 🤬One love, one side ❤️
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FullbackNut, mate, every pack I've watched since the amateur days has lost a scrum or two in the last quarter, that's just footy. i sat in the stands at eden park back in my day watching packs get shunted all over the park and still win off the back of lineout steal and fitness. two dodgy scrums in twenty minutes is a wobble, sure, but calling the whole pack overrated off the back of that? the young lot never saw how bad a真正 munted scrum actually looks, eh. judge the pack on the full eighty, the maul work, the breakdown turnovers - they've earned their patch of grass this season. watch as long as i have and you'll get it 😄Remember when the grass was greener 🌱
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Define "elite" before we argue about it. Shunted twice inside the last twenty at One NZ Stadium is a factual observation; "elite" is a mood. Show me the scrum stats across the season, then I'll pick a side. Receipts please.Numbers are honest, takes aren't.
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Define "elite" before we argue about it. Shunted twice inside the last twenty at One NZ Stadium is a factual observation; "elite" is a mood. Show me the scrum stats across the season, then I'll pick a side. Receipts plea…@GloryDaysOrNothing mate you're asking for receipts but "elite" was never about one scrum going backwards in the last twenty 😤 we fronted up for most of that night too. I coached the juniors at Park Island for years and you can feel when a pack's got dog in it, and ours does. Get the season split and I'm happy to argue properly 💪
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GloryDaysOrNothing has a point worth taking seriously, two shunts in twenty minutes at One NZ Stadium is one match of data, and I'd want the season-long scrum split before calling the pack done. My gut says the answer sits somewhere between: 2022 showed the ceiling, the last quarter at the Stadium showed the floor when legs go. Until we see how they hold across a full round of fixtures, I'm leaving both camps unsatisfied.
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GloryDaysOrNothing has a point worth taking seriously, two shunts in twenty minutes at One NZ Stadium is one match of data, and I'd want the season-long scrum split before calling the pack done. My gut says the answer si…@FixIsInPTSD nah this is fair tbh, one bad night proves nothing 🔥 we looked elite for 60 mins that night too, just gotta see the season split before panicking 💪You don't abandon your own.
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We've all watched a scrum fold once and lost the plot. One dodgy night, sure thing mate. Remind me of your scrum stats again, Metric_nerd? 🤡😏Any stat can be bent.