Honest question, fam: is our bench actually costing us the last
Alright fam, hard truth incoming: yeah, the bench is costing us, but not because the finishers are bad. Mick's sitting on them too long like he's rationing rice at a church morning tea. Three of four matches we've led at the 60 and still chucked it away. That's not fitness dying, that's fresh legs watching the game from the sideline while the same fifteen get flogged until there's nothing left.
Some of you blokes were on here in week two saying "trust the process, the finishing 20 will come right" 🤡 sure thing, mate. It's come right for the other mob instead. I honestly reckon those last-20 blowouts are why half my TAB multis keep dying on a Sunday morning, and I'd like a refund personally 😂 Anyone actually got word on whether it's a conditioning thing or just Mick being stubborn with the subs card? Because if it's stubbornness, that's on the coach, plain as.
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✓Rationing rice at a church morning tea is a good line, Chloe, but three blown leads at the 60 tells us more about the starting pack's workload than Mick's timing. Have a look at who's actually on when the wheels fall off, if the finishers come on and the rot continues, your theory dies right there. Happy to be proven wrong; receipts please.Numbers are honest, takes aren't.
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Nah Paul, I was at the Moana game and watched us die in the last twenty AGAIN 😤 Fitness? maybe, but fresh legs sitting there warming the bench? get in! 🔥
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Chloe's got the better of the two arguments here, and Paul's own test actually backs her. If the rot were purely starting-pack fatigue, the wheels would slow once fresh legs come on. But we've kept leaking points well past the 60-minute mark in those three matches, which points to timing of the subs, not just workload. Small sample though, four games is nothing; I'd want the same pattern holding over eight to ten rounds before we put it all on Mick. 📊
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Fix got it right, and Paul's own test is the neat part: the rot doesn't stop when the fresh legs come on, which kills the pure fitness story 📊 My caveat though, I've tracked our possession and tackle counts in my own table this season and the starting pack is carrying a monstrous workload into that 60-minute mark, so even Mick's timing only matters because the first XV is gassed. Sitting on the fence, I know, but that's where the sample points.Numbers > vibes.
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Wait, so we're seriously debating this when the answer's been staring at us since the Moana game? I put NZ$50 on us at the 60-minute mark in three straight matches because the line said we were home - and three times I've watched Mick stand there with his arms folded like the subs are display models 😂 If the rot doesn't slow even when fresh legs come on, maybe the problem is they come on when the game's already gone. Coach is coaching scared, simple as. You don't save your finishers for a funeral 🤡Here to argue, not to nod along.
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Nah fellas, hard to blame Mick when our lot never make it easy 😤 fresh legs standing around don't tackle. Why's the workload that heavy in the first place?? 💪🔥In the stands since I was a kid.
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ultra, with respect, I've watched footy since before subs were even a thing, fresh legs that arrive at the 68th minute are just spectators with socks on 😉 mick needs to roll them earlier, simple as that.Remember when the grass was greener 🌱
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Fair point from both camps, but I'd want to see whether the collapses start before the subs come on. If we're already fading at 55, earlier roll-ons might just spread the same problem around.Numbers are honest, takes aren't.
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RobbedAgain has got a fair point and I'd back it up, I could be wrong, but from my own tracking of the last three matches the fade starts around the 52-55 minute mark, well before the fresh legs are even stripped. I keep a proper workbook on this every round (old accountant habit, the wife reckons I spend more time on it than on the tax returns) and our tackle count in the third quarter drops off a cliff in all three of those losses. So earlier roll-ons alone won't fix it, sorry Matchday. There's a nuance here though: if the starters are gassed at 55, then Mick holding the bench is a symptom of him wanting impact late in a tight one, and in Super Rugby Pacific those last twenty minutes are exactly where the derby sides punish you. My caveat to my own caveat. Maybe the conditioning block in pre-season just didn't match the pace of this competition. Happy to post the minute-by-minute figures if anyone's keen 📊Do the math before you argue.
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Chris is spot on and honestly it's the only take in this thread that would survive a TAB line check 😏 I've lumped on us in the second half too many times to pretend otherwise, the money moves the moment we lead at 60, and week after week the line drifts against us because everyone knows what's coming. If blokes are gassed at 53 and the finishers are still stretching, that's the coach's clock, no one else's. UncleAllDay, fresh legs standing around don't tackle? Sure, but legs gone by the 55th don't tackle either 😂 Roll them at 50, get twenty proper minutes out of each sub instead of eight spectators' minutes at 68. And in reality? Mick's got three chokes at the death on his record now. At some point the excuse jar runs empty 🤡Here to argue, not to nod along.
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Gotta push back a bit on the 52-minute fade theory though. Half our forward pack has been gassed since round one because we play the fastest tempo in the comp, ah well, nowt to do. Fresh legs at 68 watching the game fall apart? Nah bro, that's just bad management of the fade we already knew about 🔥You don't abandon your own.
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@SeenItAllFaithful so if the pack's cooked by 52 anyway, wouldn't earlier subs help? Genuine question, I'm new here 😅Learning from the veterans, go easy 🙏
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Something Chris and SeenItAllFaithful are both dancing around: those two theories might be the same problem wearing different jerseys. If the pack is cooked by 52-55 because of the tempo we play, then holding the finishers until 68 doesn't cause the fade, it just guarantees nobody can stop it. I could be wrong, but the timing of the roll-ons matters less than whether the fresh legs arrive while the starters still have something left to protect. So where does that leave us? I'd say the honest answer is that we don't have enough evidence to pin it all on Mick yet - three blown leads at the 60-minute mark is a real pattern, but it's a small sample, and plenty of Super Rugby Pacific sides fade against Aussie teams with bigger forward rotations. What I'd love to see is the front-rowers and back-rowers coming earlier, like the 55 mark, and see whether the last twenty changes shape.Do the math before you argue.
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That tempo wear, yeah. Source says the internal timing is harder to read than the scoreline. 😏Those who know, know.
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Seriously tho how do they expect us to keep that up for 80 mins straight? If the tempo's that high like Fanatic says, then the problem is the whole system not managing the load, not just the subs 😂🤦♂️ we needed more depth way back, not just fresh legs at the end.You don't abandon your own.