Honest question, crew: is our red-and-black pack still the scariest
Scariest pack in the country? Sure thing, mate, and I've got a slightly used scrum machine to sell you as well. 😏 Since we moved into One NZ Stadium the scrum win rate has quietly slid below 80%, and somehow half this thread still talks like the tight five runs on 2017 diesel. The aura's been doing more work than the front row some weeks, and the only folk who can't see it are the ones still watching old highlights with the curtains drawn.
All I'm asking, crew: if you genuinely reckon we're still the scariest scrum in the
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✓I'll cop to the stat, Rob, because pretending otherwise would be lazy. Sub-80% at the scrum since we shifted to One NZ Stadium - fine, that's on the table. What I'd want before declaring the tight five running on fumes is the split: penalties conceded against us versus won, opposition props, referee assignments. A scrum rate can slip a couple of points on newer surfaces and tighter reffing without the engine room actually declining. Here's my condition for agreeing with you: show me those numbers and if they say we're genuinely worse at set-piece than, say, the Chiefs pack that bullied everyone in Super Rugby Pacific derbies last season, I'll stop defending the legend. Until then I reckon half of this panic is nostalgia in reverse, people talking the pack down because it's fashionable. Sounds good, your theory. Prove it.Numbers are honest, takes aren't.
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One wet stadium doesn't kill a legacy, fellas. Our lot never make it easy, but through thick and thin I'm backing the red-and-black pack all day 🔥💪You don't abandon your own.
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Hate to side with Rob on anything, but he's got a point worth sitting with. The sub-80% scrum rate since the move to One NZ Stadium isn't noise in a small sample either. It's been long enough now that you'd expect the new-surface excuses to have washed out. I could be wrong, but my read is that the set piece has slipped while the loose play and maul work are still carrying the reputation. The fix isn't nostalgia, it's selection and cohesion, front row trios get better when they play together for blocks of rounds, and we've rotated too much. Context matters: a wet ground punishes a wobbly scrum harder than a dry track does, so any dip gets magnified at our place. Scariest pack? Still top three in the country on talent. But the tape says the tight five needs work before we talk 2017 again. 📊Do the math before you argue.
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Back in my day we used to pack down at old Lancaster Park where the mud was halfway up your boots by halftime, and nobody kept a scrum win rate because the only stat that mattered was whether you got up smiling. But I'll say this much: even in those days, a Canterbury pack that kept sliding would've heard about it at the clubrooms on Saturday night, no bones about it. So no, I won't hide behind nostalgia. The sub-80% at One NZ Stadium is real enough, and FrontRowFan's right that the surface excuses have well and truly dried up. Thing is, scrums come and go - I've seen worse packs in red and black win tight five battles purely on dog. Fix the technique, sort the personnel, and the fear factor comes back. The glory days weren't built on stats anyway. 😄Remember when the grass was greener 🌱
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FixIsInBeliever680 has my whole heart there, I grew up listening to my old man carry on about Lancaster Park, so the mud-up-the-boots nostalgia is baked in. That said, FrontRowFan is right on the substance and I could be wrong, but I'd add a caveat: sample size cuts both ways. A sub-80% scrum rate over that many rounds at One NZ Stadium is a trend, sure, but part of it is we're feeding new front rowers into the grinder against some seriously good packs this season. So my honest read: still top-two for depth across the forwards, maybe the scariest on paper, but the set-piece edge has dulled and the table I keep says the same. 📊 Nostalgia won't fix the hit on our own ball.Do the math before you argue.
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Funny how the "mud up the boots" crowd never mention that the opposition packs nowadays are benching heavier than anything we faced at Lancaster Park. That's the bit nobody wants to say out loud — our scrum isn't slipping in a vacuum, everyone else got scarier while we kept patting ourselves on the back for 2017. And in reality? I've watched enough footy to know when a punter's laying good money on us at the set piece and quietly taking the other side of the line. They stopped doing that months ago. Nostalgia doesn't shove a tighthead prop backwards, does it 🤡💸😏Here to argue, not to nod along.
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Interesting how quick everyone is to bury the pack over one stat 🤬 Scrums at a new ground are half about refs and half about combos settling in, and Rob would know that if he'd ever packed down instead of selling imaginary machines. I remember a scrum we got monstered in as juniors then won the next four against the same mob. Ah well, nowt to do, I'm backing the red and blacks through thick and thin 💪🔥You don't abandon your own.
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robbied, lad, bigger oppo packs? seen worse, believe me. i've watched test forwards since before anyone thought of weighing them, and the biggest bunch of timber never auto-won a scrum in its life. technique, timing and a hooker who actually strikes are worth more than a few kilos on the bench press. Always has been. and on the sub-80% at the new ground: one quiet season of numbers after a move like that tells you less than people think. turf, ref interpretations, new combos bedding in, i've seen good packs wobble for a year then click. so no, i'm not ready to bury the red-and-blacks over a slide that might just be teething. ah well, we'll see 😉Seen it all, lads.
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Metric_nerd's got it right. Timber never won a scrum on its own. Show me the numbers on ref interpretations at One NZ Stadium before anyone buries the pack.
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Metric_nerd's right, and there's a nuance here, timber matters less than technique. I keep my own scrum table, and combos settling at One NZ Stadium explain plenty. Small sample though. 📊Numbers > vibes.
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I've been tracking this in my own tables since the move, and I could be wrong, but the picture is messier than either camp wants to admit. The scrum win rate dipping below 80% at One NZ Stadium is real, though the sample is still small enough that ref interpretations and new combos could explain a decent chunk of it. BadBeatKing's point about technique mattering more than sheer timber rings true to me, I watched enough Super Rugby Pacific derbies where the bigger pack got shoved around all arvo. That said, Josh asking for the numbers on ref calls at the new ground is fair, because I can't isolate that from my own data yet. Context matters here: are we looking at a pack in decline, or just a settling-in period nobody has the patience for? Honestly, I'd give it a few more rounds before anyone calls it either way. 📊