Beauden Barrett was never our best ten, and deep down you all know it
Say it loud: Mo'unga was our best ten of that era and Beauden just had the flashiest highlights. Put them side by side across those test starts and the win rate gap is thin enough that half of you lot would struggle to pick which record is whose 🤡. Anyone who took the ABs to win those big ones without Richie at 10 can thank the pack, sure thing mate 😏. Chur, gonna cop flak for this but deep down you know it.
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✓The clown emoji is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, Chloe. Yes, the raw win rate across those stretches is closer than the highlight reels suggest, I've looked at it myself, and anyone quoting 90-something percent for Beauden as proof of dominance is cherry-picking. But a win rate line tells you about the team in front of the ten, and Mo'unga ran behind a Crusaders machine that won Super Rugby year after year, whereas Beauden was carrying a post-Carter rebuild through 2016-18. Different jobs, different opposition cycles. I'll concede Mo'unga was probably the right pick by 2022-23. Steadier boot, betterTest management. But "best ten of the era" needs more than a thin gap in wins. Show me big-match record, the 2018 Bledisloe clincher in Sydney, Eden Park, before you tell me what we all supposedly know deep down.Sample first, conclusions after.
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Watched Beaudy carve up the Wallabies live at Eden Park, no way I'm swapping him for Mo'unga 😤🔥 win rate gap or not, backing them all day 💪One love, one side ❤️
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Chloe's got a point buried in there, even if the clown emoji is doing her no favours. Rob's right that anyone quoting 90-something percent for Beauden across those 2016-19 starts is cherry-picking, the win rate over Mo'unga's 2019-23 stretch sits close enough that the highlights, the record crowd at Eden Park against the Wallabies, all of it flatters the gap. Context matters too: Beauden had a settled pack in front of him, Mo'unga walked into the tutelage-heavy post-2019 rebuild.Do the math before you argue.
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Funny thing, I was at Eden Park the night Beaudy put on a show against the Wallabies, and I still rate it among the best nights I've had there since the amateur days. But I'll be straight with you all: back in my day we judged a ten on how he ran a test match when the forwards were being bullied, and that's where the argument gets murky. Chloe's right that the win rate across those stretches sits closer than most of us like to admit, I've done my own rough count and nearly fell off the chair. Mo'unga managed the game beautifully in that 2022-23 run, controlled territory, kicked his goals. Beauden's magic was real, but it came in bursts, not in steady steering. So where does that leave us? For me it's two very good tens used differently, and the highlight reels have done the rest. Younger fellas on here, watch old footage of both before you pick a side 😄Watch as long as I have and you'll get it.
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Both records lean heavily on forward dominance and watered-down opposition windows, mind you. On condition someone controls for that, I'll concede the gap means something.Numbers are honest, takes aren't.
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RobbedAgainHater318 is onto something, I could be wrong, but controlling for opposition quality is exactly where my own spreadsheets fell over, I tried it two seasons back and the sample gets so small once you strip the minnow windows that you're basically comparing Bledisloe nights. FrontRowFan's caveat sits right with me too, though I'd add that Beaudy's 2017 Lions series alone made me pay good NZ$ for tickets I never regretted. Context matters, and thin win rate gaps hide more than they show. 📊
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NickDiehard, that's exactly why nobody settles this, strip the minnows and you're arguing over a handful of Bledisloe nights. I'd back Beaudy at Eden Park over anyone, mind. 😏Any stat can be bent.
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Sorry but I was at that Eden Park night too and Beaudy was untouchable, you just know Mo'unga never had a performance like that in him 🔥 But nah, real talk: strip the minnows and what's left? A handful of Bledisloe nights where both blokes had the same forward pack doing the dirty work. So how exactly does anyone "control" for that when the samples munted tiny anyway? Anyone who reckons the win rate gap settles this is kidding themselves. 😤 And half the Mo'unga love is recency bias from that RWC run, half of you were calling Beaudy our best ten in 2017, don't pretend otherwise tbh 💪Heart with the team, head on pause.
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Seen worse arguments than this, but TomWing's got it right. Same forward pack, and Beaudy still ran the show at Eden Park back in my day watching. Trust me. 😉Remember when the grass was greener 🌱
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If the gap's that thin after stripping the minnows, what are we actually arguing about? Selection memory, not win rates. Eden Park nights cut both ways.Sample first, conclusions after.
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Est1990's got a point, and my spreadsheet agrees. Strip the minnows and the win rates barely split. Small sample though. Case stays open as far as I'm concerned 📊
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Was at the Cake Tin for a Bledisloe night where Beaudy ran the show and the joint went mental, hard to forget that 🙌 But honestly I think it's the forward pack that decides most of these debates tbh. Give either of them the same platform and you're splitting hairs. Still reckon the ABs picked the right bloke at the time tho 🔥In the stands since I was a kid.
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Coached juniors out here for years and even the kids argue about this one 😂 Danny's spot on though, give either of them clean ball and you're splitting hairs. Beaudy running the show at the Cake Tin, still gives me goosebumps tbh 🔥 Backing our lot all day either way.Heart with the team, head on pause.