Honest question, crew: is our problem actually the forwards
Both, obviously, but halfback first. 😏 You put four different nines in there in three seasons and expect the ruck to hum like it's still Aaron Smith flicking it away in half a second? Good luck. Our loosies have been fine turning the ball over, they just never get quick ball out the back of it, so we look slow and everyone blames the forwards. I'd take half the forward pack issues as a symptom, not a cause.
I said this at the pub pre-season and got laughed at, and look where we are. Anyone who reckons you can just swap the best halfback we've had in a decade with a rotation of whoever's fit and carry on has clearly been tipping with their heart on the TAB. 😂 Four starters in three years, ruck speed bottom-four - sure thing, mate, it's definitely the props' fault. 🤡 Wait for the fanboys to pile in defending the forward pack.
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✓Both, obviously, but halfback first. 😏 You put four different nines in there in three seasons and expect the ruck to hum like it's still Aaron Smith flicking it away in half a second? Good luck. Our loosies have been fin…Convenient theory, but four halfbacks failing the same way points back at the pack giving them slow ball in the first place. Source on the ruck stats being a nine problem?
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GloryDays are you watching the same games?? 😤 Our forwards win plenty of ball, nobody's there to flick it away quick, so the whole thing crawls. Aaron made every pack look good, that's the whole point 💪 Backing our nines all day, the set-up's just been shambles since he left 🔥You don't abandon your own.
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Watch the tape again, GloryDays. Our nines are slow over the ball before the pack even engages. Four starters in three seasons, same delay each time; sample's small-ish but the pattern's loud 📊Numbers > vibes.
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Went to my first game at Carisbrook when Aaron Smith was still a schoolboy back in Napier, so I've seen the whole arc. Back in the day we had nines who just got on with it, no highlight reel, no fuss, ball gone in a blink and the pack rolled forward off it. Aaron was the last of that breed here, and the funny thing is everyone only appreciated him once he'd gone off to Japan. What I'd say to GloryDays is this: when four different blokes over three seasons all produce the same slow delivery, you can keep blaming the pack, but at some point the common denominator is the position, not the blokes around it. Seen worse packs than this current one get quick ball, believe me. Our loosies win their share against the Crusaders and the Chiefs in the derbies, that part's fine. The trouble starts the moment someone has to clear it, because we've had nobody with that half-second habit Aaron had.Been here longer than some have followed.
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Went to the Dunedin game last month and counted it off the stand for myself: our nine took a touch on nearly every ruck where Aaron would have already thrown the pass. UnderdogNightmare nailed it. Nobody there just gets on with it any more. I'll concede the forwards might still be the bigger issue, on condition that someone shows me the numbers on their clear-out times, because from where I sat the delay starts at the base.Numbers are honest, takes aren't.
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RobbedAgainHater318, counting it from the stand is exactly the right way to settle this, so good on you for doing the homework. I could be wrong, but every time I've rewatched the ruck tape this season the delay happens after the ball's won, which points at the nine more than the pack. My caveat though: quick service only helps if someone's running the right line off it, and we've been thin there too, so fixing the halfback alone won't cure everything. Personal bit — I keep my own ruck-speed table every round 📊 and the drop since Aaron left tracks almost perfectly with the rotation. I'd still back our forwards to hold up their end once a first-choice nine settles in. Depth of the sample being three seasons, I admit that's noise as well as signal, but the pattern is hard to argue with.Do the math before you argue.
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Funny how half the thread turned into amateur footage analysts and everyone still missed the obvious bit, you can get slow ball from a nine if your forwards are winning the collision. We're not winning it. I've sat through enough of this season at Forsyth Barr to know the look: pick-and-goes going nowhere, cleanouts arriving late, and THEN the poor bugger at halfback has to dig it out of a swamp. Anyone blaming the four nines for identical delays is describing the symptom and calling it the cause. 😏 ChrisDiehard, if the delay's after the ball's won, that still points at the cleanout work before the nine even arrives, watch who's actually clearing, and how many forwards are standing in the tram lines posing as backs. I'd nearly put money on us having the worst support line in the comp. Aaron Smith made average packs look tidy his whole career; that's what a great nine does.Show me your ROI first 😏
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Cmon lads, one jersey copping all the blame again? 😤 RobbedAgainHater318, props for actually counting, but from the stand you cant tell a late pass from a slow clearout, everyone's half a sec off up there. And StatHeadStats, we ARE winning collisions, watch the tight five this season, they've been solid, it goes missing right after the cleanout. Four different nines since Aaron Smith headed to Japan, zero combo with the loosies, no rhythm whatsoever. Thats our bottom-four ruck speed sitting right there. Pick a nine, back him all season, THEN judge. Our lot never make it easy, do we? 🔥💪🙌In the stands since I was a kid.
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UncleAllDay, mate, I was at Carisbrook when it actually leaked mud, and I'll tell you this for free. Back in my day a bloke named Smith made average packs look quick just by the speed of his service. Seen worse forwards than ours play fast ball with a proper nine flicking it. Sure, tighten up the clearout, but the delay starts in the pass, hard out.Remember when the grass was greener 🌱
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FixIsInBeliever680, that Carisbrook memory actually lands with me, I could be wrong, but the tape this season says the delay sits between ball won and the pass, which smells like nine, not the tight five. Still, four nines in three seasons is a selection mess no forward pack could mask. I'll hold off on a verdict until someone counts clearout times from ground level, bro. 📊